Posts by Faithful Witness

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

Faithful Witness

Xanthippe: She has not mentioned the new system yet. She did talk use the phrase, "end of this system," instead of the end of the world. I have not heard any mention of that concept in so long... that is a good question. Even my parents haven't said anything. My mom once made the comment to me that the Witnesses are the only ones who teach about living forever on the paradise earth.

jookbeard: That is the key issue that I wanted to discuss with her. If I'm understanding things correctly, I would have to agree that the WTS is the channel for God on earth today. She couldn't prove that last time, so she has attempted to "set that aside" for now. I think she is trying to prove they are the only ones preaching the truth today, by showing me that what they claim is taught in the bible.

Enlightenment123: I did not know that history of the use and removal of YHWH. The thing that really strikes me, is how complicated everything has to be. There are numerous scriptures that talk about the simplicity of the message of Christ. What is the deal with all the distraction techniques, and efforts to stand out and be different? It's so clear that they want people confused, and the bible also tells us who is the master of confusion.

Thanks for that link. She was the one who said she wanted to agree that we would only work with "inspired" writings, and when I asked her if we could talk about a confusing WT article, she admitted that it wasn't going to be what the bible says. "You won't be learning what the bible says!" I got out my book last night, to remind myself. I feel pretty silly now, to realize that I was actually believing the things in that book.

The video on jw.org was strange. I'm not going to agree to another impromptu viewing of a video with them. There was definitely some kind of sublminal imagery in there, and it left me with an uneasy feeling.

---------

Other things that were memorable to me:

She did not pray at any time.

She asked me what version of the bible I was reading from. I told her KjV. "Is that ok?" She said, "Oh yes, that is fine. You can use ANY version of the bible that you want."

I said, "Any version. really?" There are some pretty perverted versions out there today (The Message is one that came to mind).

She said something like "they are all God's word." and added, "One lady that I have studied with uses the NIV. And did you know that our new version of the NWT has IDENTICAL footnotes to the NIV!" I gasped quietly at that, "Really? Who wrote those footnotes?"

"It doesn't matter, all bibles are the truth," or something very close to that, was her reply. I did not agree, so I said, "I don't know a lot about it, but I have heard some nefarious things about the authors of the NIV."

She didn't really seem to care about that question, which I found odd. If all bibles are accurate, then why do they need their own translation? I will bring that up again.

I did have my copy of the grey NWT sitting there next to me, but read from the KJV. We also used the JW app, which is very handy for comparing the translations.

I asked her about the Byington bible. I have never heard of that one. "Is that approved?" She said it was just another translation, and that all translations are approved.

I also plan to address the changes that were made to the new NWT. Last time, Miss W had made the claim that NOTHING had been changed, except the language. "They made it more modern and easy to read, NO meanings or teachings were changed!" She was very defensive about it, and it clearly struck a nerve. We were talking about something else at the time (Who is the FDS), so I left it alone. The removal of the brackets is a very significant change, in my opinion.

When My mother came and showed off her new bible to me the first time, we were admiring it together. She and I accidentally stumbled upon a change together, where they had changed the tense in a passage. To this I said, "That really looks like a change, Mom! I wonder what else has been changed..."

------------------

I know that the seeds I have planted with my mom, or at least some of them, are still percolating in my mom's mind. Last time she was here, she asked me if I had asked Miss K about "the secret book." Haha... I thought it was funny she brought this up. I chuckled and said, "No. We have agreed to only talk about what is actually in the bible." I asked her if she had asked anyone about that, and she said she hadn't.

Last summer, when I had discovered that they were about to change the truth, I freaked out a little bit. I thought maybe this would wake up my parents, as they have never had to face a change yet. I sent them an email, about how I was willing to risk losing communication with them, in hopes of warning them that there are alarms going off in their publications. They are going to be told to ignore them. I quoted the article that had "the instructions that don't make sense from a human standpoint." I told them about the book called, Shepherding the Flock of God. I sent a picture of the cover, and challenged my dad to ask an elder why they were entitled to have information and instructions he was not allowed to read.

Neither of them replied to the email, and they have never mentioned it until this comment.

I did ask my mom a few months ago, about the "instructions," and what kind of things people were saying about it, and whether they were talking about "being ready to obey." She just said, "We are still waiting to see what they are." It was then that I asked her, "Do you really believe that the governing body speaks for God?" She didn't pause before saying, "Yes." That response was very jarring, and it stopped me dead in my tracks. We were actually out in a noisy restaurant at the time, and my kids were there, listening attentively. I started talking to my daughter instead. To this day, remembering that moment has a physcial effect on me.

----------------

Back to the Miss K show.

After we watched that video, "Why should you study the bible?" (with JW's, of course), Miss K asked me, "What stood out to you in that video?"

I drew a blank, as I wasn't sure what she was fishing for. I said, "Well, I pretty much agreed, until they said that people believe that God is in control of the earth today. I don't believe that." She is not a very good listener. She thought I was saying that the video said God was in control of the earth, even though I was just trying to point out that I don't believe "what they think I believe." So we looked up a couple of verses, about how Satan is controlling the earth. Anyway...

She brought up an interesting example, with the song, "He's got the whole world in His hands." I told her I'd never thought of that song that way before...

Since we agreed that the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one, that was when she started trying to reintroduce the bible teach book to me.

She said, "JW's are getting the truth from the bible. But I think you know, we DO use other tools. You know we use the Watchtower magazine and other books from the Watchtower."

I think it was at this point that I said, "JW's are very attached to that phrase, 'The Truth.' I noticed you say it a lot, and you hold it very..." and I hugged myself. They acknowledged this and said something like "dear" or "important." I again said, "Jesus is the truth! I'm concerned that you fixate so much on the name of Jehovah, and make things so complicated. Jesus is the truth. Why do you think you have to go through the Watchtower to get to the truth?"

At some point, and it might have been now, Miss W said, "We all have free will. Some people have a hard time accepting instructions from someone else, and they don't like to be told what to do." I said, "It's not just being told what to do, but being told what to believe... even when they change their mind."

Here is where I will give Miss K some credit. Even though she stuck to her mission and made sure she got me through her whole list of cherry-picked verses on her agenda, she did pick up on my pleas that she acknowledge Jesus as the way to the Father, and that He never actually told anyone to go to an organization for salvation.

Next week, she wants to talk about John 14:6, where Christ says, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one gets to the Father, but by me."

Maybe someone here can tell me how the JW's have warped this idea, and help me be prepared for her next show. Her premise seems to be that JW's are the ones teaching the truth today, so "If what I am telling you is in the bible, it must be the truth."

She did show me the verse, where it says God is the head of Christ, and Christ is head of the church. This was one of her supporting verses, to show me that God has always used specific people or an organization to communicate with us.

I'm wondering why the JW's and Mormons both seem to believe that the bible must have been incomplete... What is the purpose of all these extra texts and publications they keep writing? I don't see, "to be continued until the end of this system of things..." written at the end.

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

Faithful Witness

Pams girl: I might not have said cross. She did correct me last time, and said, "Or torture stake..." I may have avoided the term this time, to stay on topic.

Blondie: Thank you for the illustration and hints for next time! I really struggle with finishing my thought, before she just runs rough-shod over me with her own agenda. I am way too polite, and there were more than a couple of times, when I should have stopped her in the middle. I kept waiting for her to get to the point... but I'm being reminded that they WILL just go on forever, if you don't stop them. It was sometimes like she was talking herself into her point of view...!!

Terry: It is funny you should say that, as Miss W (her partner) brought up the fact that they had learned about the truth from a different book! She said they called it "The Blue Bomb!" She said it strongly addressed the trinity doctrine. That could be what she remembers most, because she used to attend both Methodist and Catholic Churches... not sure which one came first. She now will not enter a church building for any reason, "because I know what false teachings are going on in there!" --- Miss K, on the other hand, says that she goes into church buildings for funerals, weddings, and even has gone to Weight Watchers at a church before... that is where "your conscience" comes in. She used this an example of JW's enjoying "free will."

I had made the comment that "With the JW's, it is really ALL or nothing." Miss K said, "What do you mean?"

I said, "If you want to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you have to agree with all their teachings and beliefs, even when they change their mind. Then you say that you have 'free will.' From an outsider's perspective, it really appears that you have 'FREE WILL, as long as you agree with US.' "

She didn't really have a comment about that, but then went on and told how they didn't control every little aspect of your life. "For example, they don't tell you what specific movies, TV shows or entertainment you can watch..." Then Miss W piped in with, "Of course, you want to PLEASE JEHOVAH."

Ugh... to be continued. Thanks for the encouragement.

I found it ironic, when we read about Paul instructing the Bereans to examine the teachings of their leaders... then she proceeded to try and "teach" me something that wasn't actually documented in the bible. (Jesus using God's personal name).

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

Faithful Witness

I appreciate all your thoughts and comments. I am too kind, and I really did let her talk WAY too much. Her poor partner couldn't even get a word in edgewise... had to raise her hand to speak up. It was downright rude at times, really... oh well, there is always next week. (Although I'm not sure how long I will be able to endure this).

As expected, Miss K arrived with her own agenda, since I hadn't given her a specific question. We went hopping and skipping through the bible, picking out verses to demonstrate that God's message comes through Jesus to men, who write it down. She believes that today, the Watchtower is the channel for God on earth. I had already challenged that belief, and she was trying to give me evidence of that, because "someone has to be spreading the truth today."

She wanted to go to jw.org and watch the video called, "Why should you study the bible?" I agreed. (It took awhile for the video page to load on my ipad, and while waiting, I realized that I had multiple tabs open in my browser, including this one and 2 others that said Jehovah's Witness... oops... so I adjusted the angle and made a little show of reloading the page and holding the ipad in the air, explaining that the modem was upstairs). It worked, and we watched the bizarre video. JW's really have a strange way of presenting the message of the bible.

She kept talking about the TRUTH. Repeatedly, verses about "the truth," "being in the truth," etc. I kept waiting for her to get to the point, after all these 1-2 verse passages about the TRUTH.

Finally, I said, "What is the truth?" She looked at me blankly for a moment and replied, "Well, the Bible is the truth."

"What is the truth of the Bible?" I asked her. (blank) "What is the message of the Bible?" I rephrased the question, and waited.

"It's about the fulfillment of God's kingdom and the sanctification of His name, restoring his power on earth." She started to go off on another topic, and I said "Wait a second..." and I picked up my pen. She gasped. "Don't quote me on that! You're not going to find that written anywhere... Well, you can write it down if you want, but ___" I am not quoting directly, since I made the choice to respect her feelings and did not write it down. I wasn't trying to embarrass her, but I think I did make her think about what she had just said.

Then I said, "Jesus is the truth. He told us so himself. 'I am the way, the truth and the life. No man gets to the Father, but by me.' " She agreed, although she was thrown a little bit.

She summed up her presentation with, "Who is teaching the truth today?" Of course, she claims it is the JW's... (look at all the false things being taught in churches: trinity, hellfire, immortal soul...)

Then she asked me why I had stopped studying before. "Was there something particular that made you stop?" I sat silent for a moment, while thinking of how to reply. (For some reason, she didn't hear or remember that we found apostate information and showed it to our teacher, and HE stopped the study and gave up on us. That was about 4 years ago, so I give her the benefit of the doubt... although there are others in the KH who OBVIOUSLY think they need to avoid me).

I said, "Well, I have come to realize that there is a big difference between studying the Bible, with the use of a study aid or commentary, and just reading the Bible without someone telling you what to believe it says. The more I read the Bible, the more things I see that conflict with what we were being told."

She then asked me if I had a copy of the Bible Teach book. I said I did, but I would have to find it. She happened to have hers in her bag (surprise!). She pulled it out and laid it on the table. "This book is the book we usually use, to help people to understand what the bible says. It's called "What does the bible really teach?" (I interrupted with, "I've read it.")... What do you think you will learn from this book?"

I replied, "That book is about what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible says. It is written from the JW's perspective."

(At the beginning of the conversation, they had made comments about how different people have different perspectives on things. "For example, you can read a newspaper article, and it will give you the perspective or viewpoint of the person writing that article. It won't necessarily give you all the information you need to know, or the perspective that someone else has." She told about how she had witnessed a crime, but didn't see certain details. She loves giving personal examples to draw analogies in her life.)

She was frustrated with my answer, and said, "This book talks about what the Bible really teaches. Do you think you could learn the truth about the Bible from this book?"

I said, "This book presents explanations of how Jehovah's Witnesses come to the conclusions they have about the bible."

"It is about what the bible teaches. If what is written in this book is true, then it is presenting the truth about the bible... do you agree?"

I said, "It presents certain ideas that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe, and then refers to scriptures to support their viewpoint."

She made another comment, clearly frustrated that I was not going to concede that the Bible Teach book was true. I didn't say it was false, because I was not ready to really argue any of the points being made in the book. I haven't touched that book in a very long time.

I finally asked her, "Is this book inspired?"

"No! It is not inspired. Of course it is written by imperfect men," and then she went on to admit how no JW was perfect, and that all are still sinners. "Yes, there are men and even leaders in the organization who have done wrong, and had to be removed..." She went on a little rant about that, and then came back to earth. She keeps bringing up problems that are evident in the organization, and even in their literature, while still insisting that the JW's are "THE ones teaching the truth today."

She kept pressing me for a reason or something that was stopping me from agreeing with the JW's. I asked her if JW's believed that Jesus was their mediator, and that they could go directly to him. She said yes. I said, "I get the distinct impression that there is this other 'layer' there, and that you teach that you have to go through an organization to get to Jesus. Your explanation of how Jesus speaks to people today through your organization, is something I have not heard anywhere else. Jesus said HE was the truth..."

She interrupted (again), "Did you ever go to meetings at the Kingdom Hall?" She knew we did, for almost a year at that KH. "Did you ever hear anyone pray to the organization or the governing body in their prayers?"

I told her I couldn't remember, it had been so long, but I will take your word for it that they don't do that. "But I did witness my sister's baptism, and I noticed that they all agreed that they were being baptized as part of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. It appeared they were making a sort of pledge to the organization before they were baptized."

They both stammered a little bit, and said they didn't know exactly how it was phrased, but agreed that there was more to it, than just "The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost." I said, "That is not in the bible." (change subject)

"What do you think most people would say, if you asked them why Jesus came to earth?" she asked.

"I can't guess what most people would say, but I know why he came. He came to save us from our sins, to sacrifice his life and die for us on the cross."

She said, "That's right, AND he said he came to tell us about God, and to sanctify his name." I asked her where it said that, about the name.

"That is one thing I did notice at the meetings. You don't talk much about Jesus, but spend a lot of time focusing on the name of Jehovah," I added.

She asked if they talked about Jesus being the son of God, and I agreed, but that they seem to diminish him and his authority. They are more worried about vindicating the name of Jehovah God.

She repeated the statement that Jesus came to sanctify the name of his Father. I asked her again where it was in the Bible, and we looked up a couple of verses. So I asked her, "Where is it recorded that Jesus called his father by his first name? I never found that anywhere."

"Oh! It's in there... let's look it up." She took me to Luke 4:8, where Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament. I was reading from the King James bible, so the entire quote of the Old Testament was in all caps. She pointed out to me, that it said LORD, because it was originally YHWH.

I said, "That doesn't work here, since the whole sentence is in all caps." She didn't know what I was saying, so I opened the JW library app, where we viewed all the translations at once. First I went to Genesis 2, and found a verse with "Jehovah" in it. The KJV translation had translated it as LORD.

Then I went to Luke 4:8 in the JW app, and the KJV says Lord, where the new version of the NWT says Jehovah. None of the translations had used LORD here. All had Lord, INCLUDING the original Greek in the KIT, which should have had YHWH, if I'm not mistaken.

I said, "So Jesus didn't actually say Jehovah here."

"Yes he did."

"That's not what it says here, or in the Greek."

"Well, he obviously did, because he had come to sanctify his father's name. He would have said Jehovah because he was reading it from the scriptures."

I didn't catch that until later, but he was probably just reciting, since they are supposedly his own words.

"By this time, they had already removed God's name from the scriptures. That is why it is just written as Lord in the Greek." (HUH? Is that true?)

"Oh, I thought they removed the name in modern translations. I guess I'm confused about that... Is there any record of Jesus ever calling his father by his name? Did he refer to him by his name, or ever instruct us to call him by his name? Specifically?'

"No, it's not recorded anywhere, but like I said, God's name had already been removed from the scriptures by the time of Jesus." (???) "Jesus came to sanctify his name, like in the Lord's Prayer, when he says, 'Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified...' "

"What does sanctified mean? Does that mean it is too holy for people to say it out loud? What does that mean?" We looked it up in the dictionary, and it meant holy (basically).

"Well, no one was using God's name at that time. They had removed it from the scriptures." (She was sticking to this reasoning now) "That was one of the reasons that Jesus came here, to represent God and to sanctify his name."

"Ok. If this was so important, why didn't anyone record it? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John... none of the 4 found it important enough to even mention it once...?"

She said, "Well, no one knew how to pronounce it. We know Jehovah isn't the correct pronunciation, but neither is Jesus. People don't have a problem using the name of Jesus."

I asked, "Why didn't Jesus tell us how to pronounce it?"

She sort of scoffed at that. "Jesus told us he was sanctifying God's name."

"So there is no record of Jesus ever actually using God's name," I said.

"No, there isn't... but we know he did because he was reading it from scriptures."

"You just said it was removed."

"But Jesus knew God's name."

"Why didn't anyone record him saying it? If it was an important instruction, I think someone would have written it down."

She didn't have much more to say about that, and she changed the topic when it was clear she was not going to get me to come to a conclusion that was not written in the bible.

Interestingly, she referred me to the scriptures where Paul is telling the Bereans to examine what they are being taught, and to check everything in the scriptures. I will continue with that part when I am more awake.

Our session was again over 3 hours... cha-ching! Jehovah points for both of my friends!

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

Faithful Witness

She has had 42 years of training and indoctrination. I'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it. This will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.

I'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation. I am going to have a list of questions that I have been confused about from our last "conversation." I plan to take notes this time, so I can remember correctly, the statements she is making.

Miss K is a master at controlling the topic, and trying to throw doubt at just about every comment I make. She has been trained NOT to listen, but to appear that she actually cares. Her armor is thick, and although she seems fully convinced of her version of truth, she will contradict herself and backpaddle on many of her own proclamations. I'm not sure if it is DOUBT that I sense, or if it is just fear of facing the truth. Watching her perform is very interesting... I do love people. They fascinate me.

She clearly suspects me as an apostate, and I'm really unsure of her motives in visiting me. I don't want to scare her off, but I think she must realize that I have already "come to my own conclusion."

It will be interesting to see where we go today... (report will follow)

59

JW Witnessing Trolleys. To approach or ignore what is your preference and why?

by KateWild in

i saw two brothers this morning next to the main train station in liverpool city centre this morning.

they were not actively approaching anyone.

what i found strange was that they were from a cong that has different territory, so i don't know why they were there.. anyway i knew them both, and they know i was df'd, i was in my car and couldn't park up for a chat, but i did beep and wave to them as i drove passed and they waved back.

Faithful Witness

I have yet to see one of these, but I hope I will have the opportunity to approach them. My situation is completely different, but I would ask questions and plant seeds, in an attempt to help them think critically for themselves.

13

Putting on the NEW "New Personality"

by stuckinarut2 in

we have often heard about the need to "put on the 'new personality'" as a jw.... but i have realised something in these last few years of awakening to the ttatt...i dont like what i had become as a 'good' jw!.

i realised that being a 'good' jw made me very:.

critical of my fellow man,.

Faithful Witness

Thanks for starting this thread! I was never a JW, but can really relate to your comments, as I have seen my parents and sister's personalities change dramatically.

My dad is a salesman by trade. He loves to talk to people. About 2 years ago, he sent out an email to all 6 of his adult children, stating that "My first priority in life now, is to BE A GOOD JEHOVAH'S WITNESS. I hope you have noticed positive changes in me."

Changes I've noticed: 1. You never answer emails or phone calls. 2. You no longer acknowledge or participate in family gatherings. 3. You act like you are made out of stone, when you do show up. 4. You repeat platitudes about yourself and your beliefs, when talking to me and other family members... most notably, "They are smarter than me!" 5. You are embarrassed to be bold about your religion, which really sends the message that you are more concerned about avoiding your own family, so you can go out and knock on the doors to try to "save" strangers.

My mom used to be much funnier, and loved to have fun. She strains to tell a joke now, and since she doesn't have any good material now, her jokes fall flat most of the time, and her frustration is very evident (at least to me). She is ashamed that some of her coworkers do not know she is a JW, and made the statement last week, "Everyone should know you are a JW." My mom, for as long as I can remember growing up, always had 1 or 2 girlfriends or best friends that she would talk to and have fun with. She used to go on little weekend trips, or have weekly chin-wags to let off steam. There was some pretty heavy mischief going on at times, but she always valued her friendships. On her recent visit, I asked her who she "hangs out" with now. She doesn't have anyone now! How sad... all those people at the Kingdom Hall, who love you so much? I thought the people in Jehovah's Org were the happiest people on earth...

My sister has never had a backbone, and pretty much went from leaving home at 18, to getting married at 20 (pregnant). Her husband has always controlled her, so I'm not sure she has had the chance to really develop her own natural personality. She was baptized into the JW's about 4 years ago, and she has become completely detached from family, and really just seems unhappy. She brings a dark cloud with her, even when she is trying to put on her fake smile for us. It is very sad. If she ever were to leave the organization, she would have some real difficulty adjusting.

My elderette told me a story on our first bible study appointment. Her daughter works for a minor city in Michigan. It started out as her giving me an update on her children, but she actually made the statement that her daughter had to have her "work personality" and her "Kingdom Hall personality." I found that interesting, but didn't acknowlege it at the time. There are times when everyone has to adapt to their situation.

---------------

The fact that the JW's are being warned to put absolutely everything in their life in 2nd place, in order to work for the fulfillment of the Kingdom, is not normal human behavior. Jesus instructed us to LOVE. Love God above all others, AND Love your neighbor as yourself. They don't love their own families, they don't love other JW's, and they definitely don't love their neighbors.

All they can do is remind each other to WORK harder and persevere past all the "persecution" they face. Remind each other that you are better than everyone else, and that someday soon you will be rewarded with Jehovah's revenge on all those around you, who just didn't make the grade.

43

Is it okay for JW to take Medical Marijuana?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

just wondering.

.

Faithful Witness

My brother in law was a real pothead, when he was first studying with the JW's. When he decided he wanted to go out in service, he was counseled that he would not be allowed to go out, unless he quit smoking marijuana.

He posed the question, "What if it becoms legalized, or if it's for medical purposes?"

He was told that he should still refrain from using it.

That was about 5 years ago. The laws in Michigan have since changed, and you can get a card that allows you to grow and use marijuana, if you have a prescription/license from certain doctors. I don't think he has an MMR card, and I doubt he would go against the elders, or even dare to rock the boat. He has recently been promoted to MS.

In his case, I think it would do him and his family some good!

2

Guess who I saw today??

by quellycatface in

jw
friends

as i was walking into the churchyard, the cobe and his wife drove past me.. i sincerely hope they saw me.!!!

!.

Faithful Witness

Did you wave?

19

Mom is coming over tomorrow. What should I ask?

by Faithful Witness in

my mother is visiting us again tomorrow, only 5 weeks since her last visit.

things seem to be going pretty well with her, and the kids are enjoying having grandma back in our routine.

she is retiring at the end of may (age 65), so she promises that this is going to mean more time with family.

Faithful Witness

This is a long post... but here is a recap of issues my mom brought up during her short visit today.

My mom came at lunchtime, and stayed way past bedtime. She likes to spend the night, but had promised my dad she would be back last night. Today, they are cleaning the KH, and she tries not to miss those weeks. From her comments, I get the impression that she doesn't go most other Saturdays. She actually makes plans with her family (her brother or her sister).

I think my mom has a LOT she really wants to talk about, but it was hard to talk seriously, as the kids were really craving her attention too.

Things did not go as expected. I think she has a lot on her mind, and clearly wanted to talk about it. She seems pretty conflicted within herself. I'm not sure how to help her, without looking like an antagonist.

Within 30 minutes of arriving, she asked me, "Have the Witnesses been back again?" I told her about Miss K and how we had talked about the slave for 3 hours, and that they had never answered my question. She made the comment, "maybe this will be a better fit for you, than your last teacher...?" I didn't correct her, but did say that it was a better fit, if Miss K is going to be willing to answer my questions about the organization.

I made some errors, when I started telling her about what happened with Mr. Talkalot. She wants me to give her the date of an article we had questioned. She seems to think she can find it in the library at the KH. I will have to look it up, but it was a magazine, whose cover had a big headline about 1975.

She already "knew all about" 1975. I hadn't prepared for this one, and forgot where the warning about the false prophet appeared in the scriptures. I just made the comment that anyone claiming to speak for God, makes a prophecy that does not come true, they have revealed themselves as a false prophet. You should not follow them or fear them. I quickly changed the subject (seed planted). If anyone knows which article or magazine I am talking about, I would appreciate the help. She wants to see it.

She told me about the propaganda video that they had seen, promoting the upcoming International Convention in Detroit, MI. She said they had gone and videotaped the venue (Ford Fieldhouse), and had done their best to cast the plans for the event in a positive light. She said, "After the video was over, I just thought to myself... that just looked like a bunch of hype." The society continues to badger and coerce them, telling them they really NEED to be at this convention, whether they like Detroit or not. She expressed her own concerns about safety at this event.

My parents and sister already have their hotel booked, and they seem to be most stressed now about parking. My brother in law is an MS (new development), and says that the local congregations are trying to stake claims for the better parking structures. She was talking about how much trouble the society had gone through, to book an event for 40-45,000 people!!

She expressed concern, that they were going to be handing out invitations to the "general public" for this event. I think she is worried that someone from the world is going to come and attack them. "Who knows what could happen? They could say, OH! Here is a big group of 45,000 JW's..." I interjected with "Or LESS!!! hahaha" She laughed.

My sister went to Detroit recently, with the intention of "checking out" the area... big mistake. I think they are also now concerned. Detroit is not somewhere I would like to visit as a weekend tourist.

I think the most revealing things she said, were about her own inner conflicts. When we were alone in the car for a brief time, she started talking about something she has not mentioned before. She said, "Everyone really should know that we are Jehovah's Witnesses." I didn't know what she meant, so I waited silently for her to continue her thought. She told me about a person she works with, who did not realize she was a JW. He mentioned Christmas, and then another of her coworkers started whispering to him about JW's and holidays. She was not sure whether to be offended that they were talking about her beliefs, or ashamed that she had not been spreading the TRUTH at work, and everywhere she goes.

She went on to talk about my dad, and how he "puts on a big show at the KH. I guess we all do, really..." but then he expressed concern about my mom's brother's upcoming visit. My uncle came over last Saturday, and my dad was saying he should stay home and not go out in service. My mom reassured him that she was able to entertain her brother until he got home (and would prefer it that way). He then asked her, "Does he even know we are JW's??" and he was worried and possibly embarrassed. He didn't want to arrive home, wearing a business suit, on a Saturday afternoon, and make his brother in law wonder what was going on... She looked at me and said, "Isn't that WEIRD???" I let her repeat herself a couple of times, while she rolled that idea around in her head, and I tried to think of how to respond.

"Sort of weird, but I can understand it. It sounds like he is conflicted within himself. His natural personality is battling with his new personality. He didn't become a JW, until his mid-60's, and now he is being told he has to have a new personality. He sounds confused."

My mom interjected with "Yeah! Raised as a Baptist!"

I was glad that she had brought up my dad. He has really lost his way in life. She sees the hypocrisy, since she lives with him and knows that he hasn't changed his ways as much as he presents himself to the JW's. She can see that his JW persona is fake and forced. She feels the same way about herself, but we were able to talk about it more freely, when it was about him. Later, I did ask her if she thought he was getting senile. haha.

My other niece is having a choir recital this Tuesday. My sister won't be coming, since the concert will be inside a church. I asked Mom if she and Dad were coming. She said they were. She said, "I'm not as strict about some of the things that others are." I asked what was wrong about going into a church for an event, and she said, "You know, it's false religion. We are told to keep out, not go into Babylon." I asked her, "Do you believe that?" She said, "No." I asked what was going to happen if they stepped into a church building. "Is it the building?" I challenged her a little on this one, and dropped it.

She ended up staying much later than she had planned (as usual... she never wants to leave!) :) As we were standing around talking before she left, I wanted to be sure she was going to stay awake for her drive home. An opportunity arose to say something that has been bothering me for about 3 years.

Me: "Are you going to stay awake for the drive home?"

Mom: "Don't worry, I always stay up late."

Me: "But you're not out driving around in the dark!"

Mom: "How do you know??" :) joke yay

Me: "Well, you're not out driving on unfamiliar country roads..."

Mom: "Maybe I am..." another joke

Me: "Not by our house! If you're driving past our house, I would hope you'd at least stop in and say hello!"

Mom: blank

My 7-year old daughter, who was listening: blank, open-mouth stare, although subtle... she knew what I was saying

Explanation: My parents live about 65 miles away, but their assembly hall happens to be 5 miles from my house. Our road is the direct route to the Holt Ass Hall. They don't miss assemblies, but we never see them. We make comments like, "I wonder if they hold their breath while they drive past our property." She has postponed visits to see us, because she "forgot" that this week was the assembly.

My mom did not have a reply to that remark, but reassured us that she would stay awake all the way home.

Based on many of the topics that came up during this visit, I feel like it would be a good time to arrange some time when I can be alone with my mom for awhile. She has a lot on her mind, and I would love to hear what she is thinking, and give her an outlet to express her doubts and questions.

She mentioned that their good friends had been transferred to a different KH, and they don't see them anymore. I asked her, "So, who do you hang out with?" She said she didn't. I asked her a couple of times if she had any "buddies" at the KH. She said, "not really." She used to hold her friends and relationships in high regard, so I'm wondering if she will think about how it used to be.

I am going to try to be more of a friend to her. I have to figure out the logistics, and how to get time with her, without ignoring the kids. She seemed to really want to talk, more than play with the kids this time. She is stressed.

I do want to ask her about the program for the international convention, and to look over the topics with her.

I didn't end up talking about the Baptist church asking us to fill out pledge slips. I did tell her that we were doing "home church" with friends who agreed that there was no church who taught the truth.

Sorry this was so long... but maybe someone can relate to something. Any ideas of things I can say to help her through this, and possibly move her in a direction away from the control the WTS has over her life, would be appreciated.

10

Wow! I saw my sister last night, and she came as her old self!!

by Faithful Witness in

i went to watch my niece's orchestra recital last night.

i knew my parents were coming, and was pleasantly surprised to see my jw sister and niece were there also.

i don't think my family realized (nor did i) that this was a christian homeschool music program.

Faithful Witness

I saw my mom yesterday, and asked her if she had told my sister that I was studying again. After reading the comments here, I did wonder if they were putting on their conditional love, because they thought I "might be coming back."

My mom denied that she had said anything to my sister. She always acts like she doesn't talk about me to my other sisters... although I'm not sure what to believe sometimes.

I'm going to give my sister the benefit of the doubt, and just appreciate the moments that we had at the recital. Joking around with her, made it a lot more fun to sit through 2 hours of beginning orchestra music. ;)

My temptation is to SEIZE the moment, and try to reach out and pull my sister closer... but I am going to lay low, as I have been. I don't want her to think I am trying to attack her again... haha. Maybe this summer will give us a chance to reconnect with the kids at a neutral place.